Is Byron Katie’s Enlightenment Experience An Impediment To Me

TransCription

Participant:

My question, and this has been ongoing for really a long time. I have been doing The Work for some years and my question is to myself and then to this group, is Byron Katie and specifically her profound enlightenment experience, if you follow me, is that a help to me or is that a tremendous impediment to me? Now, the reason I say that is because there’s a tendency that I see in me and I see in others to pattern behavior after her. Sometimes even to pick up the way she speaks or whatever. And of course, we know where that comes from.

Participant:

So Byron Katie out of her uniqueness sets what seems to be, for me, an unachievable standard of conduct and fearlessness. Specifically, and this one is the one that really has gotten me. And maybe this is the only one for all I know, but it’s there. And that is that she tells a story about how, after her 1986 experience, that she was in this dysfunctional marriage and her husband was understandably upset by her change of personality. And he went around the house screaming and cursing at her, and she sat there on the couch and was just in wonderment. And her attitude was this poor dear, man, I’m just going to listen to him. This of course is wisdom. It’s a beautiful prescription to just listen.

Participant:

I think you know where I’m going with this. I see Todd shaking his head and smiling. That’s above my pay grade. You follow me?

Todd:

Yeah.

Participant:

So I’ve always aspired to that, not just because I’m going to imitate Byron Katie, but because in number four, there is that wisdom. There is the capacity in me. However, it gets covered up and rather quickly by my reactivity. So sort of bring it to a more tangible thing for this group. Practical let’s say. Is that, in light of the first question I asked, is she an impediment? What is authentic, I ask myself, what is my authentic behavior? If Katie can receive curses, Bill apparently cannot. He’s tried it. So is it authentic to ask the other, please, I can’t handle this. It wrecks my day, it wrecks my week sometimes, it rattles me deeply. And it’s not like I feel justified in it. It’s just the way this thing works, this thing, it works, it works that way.

Participant:

So I get extremely affected and it disrupts my sleep, it hurts, and whatnot. I do The Work. I find the truth in it but ego comes back in. So I don’t think that’s news to anybody here that ego comes back in. So what do you say, Todd, or what do other people have to say in their experience about behavior that you just can’t seem to tolerate?

Todd:

Yeah. Yeah. That’s a really, really good question and a really good topic that you bring up. Another principle of Byron Katie’s that kind of fits in here for me is she often says, “Don’t pretend yourself ahead of your own evolution.” So yes, she has a standard, if you will. She has, just by her experience, her nature, she’s amazing. She’s amazing. And so it’s inspiring to read her words and to hear her stories. And so yes, in that way, it’s a help.

Todd:

But where it becomes an impediment is when I start comparing. I start comparing myself to her and then think that I should be acting on that level. I should be at her level of evolution, whatever that is. It’s kind of like when you’re in… I consider myself like in first grade and she’s in graduate school or something. And so if I’m in first grade and I’m not able to do differential calculus or something, then if I think I should be, I’m going to be beating myself up for not having that ability, but it’s above my pay grade. Literally, it’s beyond my evolution at that point.

Todd:

So, comparison is a big source of stress and even comparison to something really good. In fact, it usually is to something really good. And here’s something Byron Katie in some ways is like really, really, really good. So the comparison to that, I’m just going to always lose. It’s just, I fail. I can’t live up to that. And as long as I’m believing that I should be living up to that or that I should be where she is, or I should be anything like her, then it’s going to be a cause of stress. So if that stress comes in, of course, that’s where The Work can serve. I should be less reactive. I should be able to just listen when somebody’s yelling at me. Is it true?

Todd:

So I can question the thoughts that keep me comparing myself to an ideal that’s beyond my evolution. Another way of saying that is, the idea of loving what is, doesn’t just include loving people out there yelling at me. It also includes loving what is, which is my ability at this point to handle it. And maybe my ability is only so much. So can I be okay with that as well? And that’s another piece of work, right? So some things rattle me. I have the same thing. Some things just rattle me and basically, if I’m not thinking I should be over this, I should be able to deal with this, then I just know that’s as much as I can take. And I have to just get out of the situation for a while and regroup, find whatever means I can, including The Work to get grounded again.

Todd:

But in my experience, it’s a process of getting exposed to the challenges and then coming back and doing some work, integrating, resting, stepping out of the situation if necessary. Like, step into the fire, step out of the fire, step into the fire, step out of the fire. And I can only handle so much at first. But over time, this is a process, what I notice is that my ability to handle the fire just gets more and more. And it’s probably nowhere near what Byron Katie can handle, but I’m looking at my own progress and there’s something there. So I content myself personally with just the strides that I am making. And that’s enough for me. I’m in kindergarten, I’m in first grade, I’m just taking one step. And what I can handle today, I find is more than I could handle a few years ago. So that’s enough for me. It’s enough for me. I let it be enough. Because if I don’t, it stresses me even more. So that’s my experience. I don’t know if that resonates or anything, but that’s my experience.

Todd:

Oh, Bill was having some internet issues here, so he may be popping in and out. If anyone else here wants to share anything from your experience, I’d be happy to hear it as well. Here he comes back again. Yeah. Edwin, I saw your hand.

Edwin:

Yeah. It’s actually not related, but [crosstalk 00:09:56] See what he thinks.

Participant:

Yeah. Thank you.

Todd:

You’re welcome. Yeah. Yeah. Comparison, right? Comparison is a killer even to-

Participant:

Well, could I just add something to that?

Todd:

Yeah. Is that okay?

Participant:

Is that okay, Edwin, that I hog the time here? Once I factor out the comparison and I don’t think it’s a huge issue for me. I don’t really think that… It has been, but less. It’s more that okay, in the moment I don’t want to defend. A, because it’s kind of prescribed in our community and B, it goes nowhere. Who needs it? It’s war. So now you’re left with this deluge and I don’t defend. And then I go back to the garage or something with 10 worksheets and start working it. And then my life becomes like this. Like you just said, Todd, you go into the fire, then you come out of the fire, into the fire. How about, like you Todd, Todd, I don’t like that picture behind you. It’s really driving me crazy. Or I don’t like those glasses you’re wearing, or I don’t like the way you speak to me. Is that defense?

Participant:

Todd, I don’t like how you’re speaking to me or I can’t take it, Todd, I’m sorry. I’d like to be your friend, but you’re over the top, man. Like where do we go with this? Do you see what I’m saying? Other than to the garage with my worksheets.

Todd:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you’re talking about. Yes. Going to the garage with my worksheets is one way of really taking care of the under belly of the beast. And it takes time. It’s a long process. It’s an ongoing thing. And then what do I do in the moment? Is another. I don’t know if that’s where you’re getting there, but-

Participant:

And with the whole relationship, because it’s repetitive behavior.

Todd:

Right, right. So, one of the things I’ve noticed in myself is that, the more I’ve done this work, the more I have become, I don’t know, fearless is a little too strong, but more willing to actually stand up for myself as well. And so, The Work can be used as an excuse sometimes to just, oh, it’s just my stuff. And I can end up just, like you say, not defending in a way that is in essence, it’s a good thing. I’m going in, finding my stuff and all of that. But I’ve also noticed, where I like to rest and where The Work always points me is to what is the actual truth of a situation? And sometimes I’m not wrong.

Todd:

Sometimes I actually have a valid point. And what I find is that I actually am becoming stronger in saying that. Whereas before, I think the only way I had to say that was with defense and with attack and with a lot of energy behind it. What I’m noticing is that I’m willing to speak up a little bit. It actually takes some courage for me to speak up and say, well, I don’t see it that way, and at least voice my point of view because no one else is seeing it. And that has been something that’s been increasing for me and it has made the interactions less stressful in my experience. So it’s not a replacement for going to the garage and doing my work, but… Do you know where I’m going with that, what I’m saying?

Participant:

Beautiful. And would you give an example of what that looks like?

Todd:

Sure. Yeah. Funny, you would say it, but just a couple days ago I had an argument with my partner and I was starting to share something a little bit more vulnerable with him and he cut me off right at the beginning saying… I don’t remember what the words were, but it’s sort of like short version, like he doesn’t have time for this. And I just felt shut down by that. I didn’t really want to share much more at that point. And then he kept pushing and showing why it was justified to do that. And I, at one point, just said, you’re trying to blame it on me, but I didn’t do anything wrong here. It’s natural to expect someone to want to listen.”

Todd:

I did get a little bit more… I wouldn’t say I was totally calm. I got a little angry, but it didn’t go down into the depths of my heart. I slept fine in that night. It was like, it felt like it was not coming as much from the reactive place as from just an observational truth place where, hey, you’re off, you’re off. And I can see where I was off in certain ways too, but overall I wasn’t that far off. And so I didn’t have to beat myself up as much with it. So that’s an example for me. And I look at that, what I would’ve done 10 years ago, I would’ve been shut down for like three days. I would’ve not slept at all. I would’ve been totally avoiding him and passive aggressive and everything just in a ball of stress. And somehow I just dealt with it in the moment, didn’t make it my problem, gave him the feedback and yeah, it affected me, but it wasn’t as consuming as it was when I first started doing The Work years ago.

Participant:

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Todd:

You’re welcome. Yeah.